Listen to Episode 4 of Consciousness Talk:
Tania: Ok, so welcome back to Consciousness Talk. We are on podcast number 4 today. And I’m gonna hand it over to Rich to kind of talk about what we’re going to be going through today.
Rich: I thought I’d outline some of the things for us to talk about. So first was, let’s backtrack a little bit. Then the second one is, I wanted to talk about the Bhagavad Gita…what it says on the age of the world. And then there’s science and astrophysics…what they’re finding. And then Yogananda’s biography as to the Garden of Eden story. And then point out that there’s massive bones that go back 20 million years. So, with that, any thoughts? And I’ve got other material too, haha… so we’ve got plenty of material.
Well, let’s just start with the Bhagavad Gita. When you read the Bhagavad Gita, and Krishna says that our world evolves from a dot, or nothing, it’s just all about him…and he’s invisible and not any size at all, there’s no physical shape or size to his world. And he says everything’s been manifested from him, which is interesting.
And when you do the math on it, it says…the world starts with this dot, of Krishna, at his command, or whatever, expands and then contracts down to nothing again. And it starts to look like some of the stuff with the Black Hole theory, is that the universe collapses.
Let’s go to what some of the astrophysicists are saying…is that the solar systems or whatever they are, evolved from nothing, and then they collapse into a black hole and become nothing again. And so that almost ties in with what the Hindus had been saying, 1000s of years ago.
And, so when you read the Bhagavad Gita, it says that it goes through a cycle, and the cycle goes from zero to whatever we have, and then it collapses. And the time of the cycle is like 6 billion years.
And so when you go to Yogananda’s…well, backing up a little bit.… So the science and astrophysicists are finding the solar system, in their telescopes they’re looking at solar systems out there, or whatever they are, that look like they’re coming from nothing, and then they’re a dot, and they’re starting to expand…and then they talk about the black hole and everything collapses. And they’re seeing universes or solar systems that are collapsing. I have no idea…but that’s some of the stuff that is out there, and it’s not inconsistent with what the Bhagavad Gita is saying, or what Krishna is saying. So any thoughts?
Farzad: It’s too heavy for me, but…
Rich: Okay, we’ll lighten it up a little bit.
Tania: I was gonna say, it’s interesting. Have you read anything about like, any predictions about our particular solar system?
Rich: Well it’s not gonna happen tomorrow. So…I don’t know if we’re on the third leg or the second leg or the fourth leg of the…
Farzad: Far more I think is wider than what I know. In the year 1977, they sent Apollo 13 or something, they sent it up into orbit. It went up and it’s still in action moving…so it’s been been going for 68,000 miles an hour, and it’s going to take 85,000 years to get to the closest star to the earth…with that speed…to the closest star out of the Milky Way kind of. So there are lots of things that can be said about that, and also the universe keeps expanding and expanding. Many galaxies are opening up right now. So there are lots of things we can debate about that.
Rich: Yeah, and I do this not so much as trying to figure out or debate, or try to understand it, is just to be aware of things people have… or saints have been doing stuff for thousands of years. And to honor them and keep our eyes and ears open to what’s possible.
Elaine: And it’s fascinating that they wrote about this so long ago, and it’s consistent with science that we understand today. So where did they get that knowledge, you know?
Farzad: Yeah, the idea of the world of nothingness. Coming back to the world of nothingness. It can be expanded from any of us, better than just Krishna… it can be expanded from our own physical being…
Rich: That’s a good point.
Farzad: That is…I am the one who is making the world. I am the one with the vibration of my skin, can turn sun into the heat, or sun to the light through my eyes, or whatever it is, so it can come not only Krishna…in every single one of us that we can go back to Christianity or other religions, say, Well, God is within us… And so we create the world. That’s another…
Elaine: I think I understand what you’re saying, but part of that is, I think what you meant is that even as individuals we can expand so much. But then we can also shrink down…our consciousness can… Who knows how far we can expand ?
Tania: Infinite potential.
Farzad: Infinite potential.
Elaine: Then we also can retract, down…
Tania: Depending on our thoughts…
Farzad: Ah, that’s a great thing to see.
Rich: Yeah, a lot of times our thoughts carry on forever…you know, or deeds. Think of some of the great politicians, well Ben Franklin, carries on for all these 100s of years.
Elaine: Right. Some people have expanded so much. Then you look at people that are just not evolved, not at all enlightened, and they’re completely opposite.
Tania: Contraction. Yeah, it’s interesting.
Rich: Yeah. Now, I got another good one. You’ll like this. Everybody heard of Yogananda?
Okay..I don’t know if our audience has heard about him.
Yogananda was a Yogi that started in India and brought yoga to the west, in about 1915, plus or minus. His guru was a guy named Yukteswar. And I don’t know in this writing, if I spelled it correctly. And so they were talking… Yogananda and other people were talking about the story in the biblical terms of the Garden of Eden story. And so he asked Yukteswar, Why don’t you interpret it and what does it mean? And so that’s what he did.
And so what Yukteswar came up with is, when you’re reviewing the story of the Garden of Eden, a god told everybody that the center of the garden is the Tree of Life. Remember that? And then the Tree of Life…Don’t touch this, and don’t do that, and either eternal life or something if you do the wrong thing. But what I wanted to point out is that from Yukteswar’s point of view, the center of the Garden of Eden represents the spine of the human spine, not some external thing. And then the serpent that crosses over and over on the pole that goes up the tree…crosses it seven times, and it represents the chakras. So what he’s saying is that the center of our garden is the spine. That’s where all the energies at, and follow the chakras… Buy into the chakras thing… So that’s a whole new thing, for most of us to hear that, is…Oh my god, that makes some sense.
Elaine: There’s a correlation in the numbers, like the seven serpents.
Rich: Yeah, seven crossings of the serpent. I’m pretty sure of that.
Tania: I find it interesting that like, because I’m thinking of the Kundalini…that’s like the serpent energy that comes up, right? We can access that like dormant energy. I think it’s more of like the sexual energy, right? But it’s interesting to me, it’s always been interesting that the serpent represents that energy because the serpent is often connected to like evil, right? And so I’m trying to make sense of that.
Farzad: Depends on who’s point of view.
Rich: So in some biblical, or teaching world, the serpent’s the good guy…and we look at serpents or snakes as bad guys. It’s just a whole new take on the center of the spine. The center of our universe is the spine. And I like what Tania said, is that…what did you say about the Kundalini, moving the force up?
Tania: The kundalini, yeah, when you can activate it, and then it goes up all the chakras.
Rich: Yeah. And it’s a very powerful force, the Kundalini.
Elaine: Chakras, that’s a whole interesting topic in itself.
Rich: Yeah, so there’s food for thought. Maybe somebody’s gonna start one on chakras.
So I wanted to go back to this six billion years type thing. And the story that Earth is…what we find is massive dinosaur bones dating back twenty million years that were found in the Dakotas, Russia, and in South America. And the source of that information, one source is the Smithsonian channel. So all of the sudden this stuff… remember I said earlier in this talk, I was raised that the earth is six thousand years old…and that’s it. Well there’s plenty of evidence that they made a mistake there somewhere. They may have left off three or four or ten zeros after, the thousands.
And so we’re finding that, and this is only in the last fifty years, I think, that this has exploded. You know, people really thought the earth was five thousand years old or six thousand. And so now with science, with awarenesses, with getting our ancient scriptures tied in with them, I find it pretty interesting.
Elaine: For sure. It’s definitely not consistent with the writings, that’s for sure.
Farzad: What I was trying to say, how we can connect all this great approach of all religions, that many of them, they are so common and so similar to each other, like, for example, oneness with God. Christianity says the same thing. Judaism says the same thing. And Krishna says the same thing. And one of the approach of Gita and Krishna when Arjuna goes to him and he says, well, there is a war…and I have to go and kill my cousin. And he says, Well if you don’t kill your cousin, your cousin is gonna kill you.
And then he walked through different spiritual path, to bring him to the highest stage of spirituality, which is oneness with God. And then therefore, whatever he does, he’s going to do it for the sake of God’s enjoyment, rather than his own self gratification… doing the right thing rather than his own sense gratification or self gratification. So many of the other religions they have the same approach to some degree when I look into it. Thanks.
Rich: Well, I think, you know, that’s kind of the the good thing about the reincarnation thing, is, don’t take yourself so damn seriously. You come back, and everybody is, how do I say it… death is the worst thing in the world for what Western civilization says. And the other side of death is, this is normal…were all gonna die. Enjoy the ride type thing.
And so you mentioned something in the Bhagavad Gita, what it says…I think it’s chapter two of the Gita…Krishna talks to Arjuna and says: “Why are you so depressed?” And Arjuna says, Well, I’ve got cousins and uncles and aunts on one side, and I’ve got cousins, and uncles, and aunts, and I got to go kill some of them, and that’s depressing…
And so that’s where Krishna then introduced that, Hey, you know, we’re all going to be reincarnated. And we get to reap what we do at a later time.
Farzad: And also is a dangerous kind of approach with people that they really think they got one with god… and they can do whatever they want to do. They go and put bombs around their waist and go and kill people. Because they really think they’ve become one with God. That is crazy also, because for the sake of goodness, or whatever, I think to me…I understand is no good comes out of it.
Tania: I can’t remember in the Gita, when Krishna is explaining to, like when Arjuna is complaining because he doesn’t want to have to go and harm his family members. And Krishna is basically saying like, It’s okay. But what’s the reasoning? I think it was more than just reincarnation, but I can’t remember why Krishna was saying that, This is just a normal part of life. Was it…?
Farzad: The whole idea is the war between good and evil.
Rich: Okay..that’s good.
Farzad: So the good and evil is the time that we become one…it means there is no more love or hatred. So we have to surrender all that, and to do the right thing. So what would be the right thing to do…when we put both feet in, he says, spiritual world, good and bad, in the spiritual world living in absolute world. So that is the place that he’s trying to take Arjuna, but this story is just the story. He’s trying to do the story to pass on the different stages of spirituality, which the highest one freedom from false ego, false pride and hatred in all our activities. That’s where Krishna is trying to take Arjuna…to that place.
Rich: Very good.
Tania: Thank you for that Farzad.
Rich: Okay, and I thought we’d get into Christianity a little bit. So Jesus was born at time 1 year or 2 years after time 0. And they talk about the Gospels. And then we talked, I think last time, a little bit about the Council of Nicaea. Do you remember that?
Tania: Yes the Nicene creed, where they all had to come together and agree on what was going to be put into like the books. Yeah.
Rich: Well, I’m not sure that was the exact purpose of it, but that’s the outflow of it. And it was started by a warrior, which was Constantine, and he was the big warrior from Italy. And they had the meeting down in Constantinople…I think it was right in the Persian Empire.
Farzad: I think his wife was a major figure of this whole Jesus expanding the story, and all that…Constantine’s wife. I think, I’m not sure.
Rich: Very well could be. Yeah. I didn’t know that.
Farzad: She was the one who has been traveling and trying to find the cross, to prove. And I think they found a cross somehow, I don’t know. I don’t remember that. But I know the wife was far more far more involved than Constantine himself…very, very involved, and she loved Jesus.
Rich: Well maybe that was the source of him being converted. He converted I think days before he invaded something…
Elaine: That happens with women a lot. They come in and they make a difference. They influence their husband or…
Farzad: The sense of guilt she went through, with what they let happen to Jesus.
Rich: Oh she felt guilty about that?
Farzad: Yeah, guilty…
Rich: Yeah. Well a lot of religious people feel guilty about that. Interesting. Well, and that’s that’s a big sales pitch for religions, is the guilt thing. So then that can motivate a lot of people to do a lot of things.
Elaine: Guilt and fear.
Tania: Guilt and fear…yeah, that’a big one.
Rich: Yeah fear-based…
So let’s start at time T equals 0 for the birth of Jesus, and go from there. Mary Magdalene is a major source. And then we find out that all the gospels that were written, four of them made it to the finish line. So as human beings making decisions, on which ones they’re going to take. So that was at the meeting of the Nicene Creed, where they put formalization to it.
And you can see why, is if one group is preaching this, and another one’s preaching that, it would make some sense. And then there could be a political influence in that too…Let’s get one big basket here and wrap everybody in the same tent, and then we have more control.
So the one that didn’t make it into the finals of earthly people was Mary Magdalene. And Mary was probably the most influential person on Jesus, in the sense that a lot of accounts indicate that they lived together, and some would say that she was his wife, which got changed along the way of what it was. And the person that changed it, changed anything positive about Mary Magdalene, was Pope Greg Gregory in the 1600s, 16th century. He downgraded her.
He downgraded her to kind of being a whore, just because she was single. And I don’t know if there’s any, in my mind it’s not important whether she was or wasn’t. I mean, we see this all the time in the twelve step people…they come in with all kinds of bad baggage, and then all of a sudden they grab a hold of the Spirit and they’re off into another world. And so that was interesting. I’m estimating her age might have been 25 years old at the time. Because Jesus’s age was like, 31 or something.
Farzad: How old Jesus was when he passed away?
Rich: Well I heard 31, but I don’t know.
Tania: I thought it was 33.
Rich: Yeah could be. The low 30s is what you see…
So how powerful was the Pope, is a point here. And I’ll give you an example. And you almost need a globe to look it up. So after the boats went out and they’re discovering the Americas and stuff like that, the Pope got involved, and said, Okay, Is it Portugal that’s in charge? What territory are they in charge of…to deliver the message of God? probably. And the Spanish people, they’re in a different category.
So, this is again, a thing out of the Smithsonian, that said, the Pope decreed that from 0 to 90 degrees west on the globe is Portuguese. And then declared that the Spanish people have anything after that, west of it. Alright, so you get the map out, and you say, well they came close… all of Brazil is Portuguese… everything between Brazil and Portugal was Portuguese. And then you get on the west side of the Andes, all of it’s Spanish.
Rich: And the lines are not drawn perfectly, but it sounds like a truth to me, is that the Pope had that kind of powers to take care of the, carve up the globe and who gets what-where religion. It’s interesting for somebody to…
Elaine: That’s a lot of power.
Tania: I’ve always wondered why Brazilians speak Portuguese. That never made sense to me. Now it does.
Rich: Now you know.
Tania: Now it does. So interesting.
Rich: So Columbus landed on the Bahamas in 1492. In our history books they talk about him landing in America here…
Elaine: In the Bahamas or, on the Bahamas ? The islands…
Rich: Yeah. And then the first settlement in America was, at one time, Jamestown in Virginia. That got upgraded when Florida became part of the Union. So now the opening round is Florida (St. Augustine in 1565), and I can’t remember which one it is, but Florida was part of it. So that’s in the 1600s. Well you’ve got to go back further to find the truth.
And so I’m wandering around the streets down in Oaxaca one time, waiting for whatever. And Oaxaca, I’m guessing it’s 100 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. And there’s a great church there that they say, ‘You gotta go see this church.’ So I go see the church and it is unbelievable, in the sense that…How the heck did they do this way back when?
And it had a definite Catholic influence on the towers and whatever. But then it had the sign “1557.” If they landed in 1492 down here, it would have taken them 50 years to get going to up to Oaxaca, and get in there. So our oldest buildings are…well, nothing close to that. The church has a massive building and a massive square.
Elaine: Oh it is?
Rich: Yeah, it’s beautiful.
Elaine: Wow. That would be interesting to see. Did you see it?
Rich: Oh yeah. They have kind of festivals on a regular basis. And the gals dance…in uniform of what they had at that time.
Farzad: And we can see the craftsmanship then. How beautiful and marvelous it was and we don’t really do that as much. Everything is machinery. It’s amazing. Yeah, I love those old buildings and churches.
Rich: Yeah. And you say…’How do you do that?’ I mean, so we’ve been fed a different type of history than reality, not out of viciousness…just self centered… We think we’re the center of the universe in America.
Elaine: Yeah. They leave out a lot of important details about what really happened.
Rich: So that was it. So 1492 is about the same time that Martin Luther came on the scene. I can’t remember if it’s 1505, or thereabouts. Early 1500s.
Elaine: Who was he?
Rich: Martin Luther was the priest in Germany. And he was at odds with the Pope. What he did is he nailed 100, 95 or 105 theses on the church door. And the most memorable one is talking about indulgences. So the Catholic Church believed in indulgences that you as a human being in the church…you’ve got to pay…buy an indulgence every time you sin. And then the the priest will bless you and erase it from the scorecard.
Farzad: Fantastic. I’m going there.
Tania: And what would the indulgences be?
Rich: Well, that’s a good question. It would be money.
Tania: Money, really?
Rich: Yeah. But the sin is pretty much everything. I mean, if you thought bad of Suzie Cream Cheese, well it could be more. That’s what it was.
So, Martin Luther was against that. And then one of the big things that he came up with, which ties into actually Buddha, now that I think about it, is he said, “Every man is his own priest.” Wow…not just the guy in Rome. Every man is his own priest… And so that changes the equation greatly.
Elaine: It puts the responsibility on the individual.
Rich: Yeah, and that was all under Lutheranism. And then Lutheranism seems to have evolved in the last 50 years to pretty much almost like a Catholic dominance, in many ways. So all this religion stuff changes with the tide. You know, there’s no firm thing, well there is probably, but grounded on…how do I say, not written in gold plates anywhere that we know of…that we can find. So I find all that interesting, is tying it in with the Pope who’s got this unbelievable control over America, before they even got here.
Farzad: I think they were the one that they came to America…they found America and Christopher Columbus was the first people that they came here, mostly there were some religious people that came here too.
Rich: Well, yeah, my understanding is Columbus was from Portugal, but didn’t the Queen hire him to… I don’t know which Queen…
Farzad: The Spanish Queen financed…
Rich: Okay, so you had Portuguese and Spanish there… So I don’t know when that delineation was made by the Pope, but it had to be in the early1600s, because, well, even before the 1600s because when people got there, were carving up the land, America, into languages at least, but it was presumed everybody’s gonna be Catholic. So that’s the take…what they did…
Elaine: Yeah, that whole subject of how there was such a campaign to spread religion, you know, like on the western side of the US, what’s now the US. They built churches going all the way up the coastline…
Farzad: During the Islamic empire, or Arab Empire they expanded it forcefully. Either you believe it or you die.
Elaine: Right. They were teaching…all of the natives that were here.
Farzad: Yeah, but the amazing part is when people don’t get to see, sometimes they don’t get to get to see the history. Right now, for example, I don’t mention the area, some areas that here there are lots of harm they’ve done to their family, their sister, their mother, kids, they’ve been raped… But the influence of the same people that they’ve done it, their religious into that area, it is…so why? They grew with, with that kind of violence, not necessarily they are violent…they are just that naive…not to see the harm that is done by the same people now they are cherishing…after time to time cherishing the same people that harmed them.
Rich: Yeah… So we’ve got Buddha and Martin Luther with the same thesis here…”You’re own priest,” is what it is. So…listen to your innermost self.
Tania: So different. So opposite of what the Catholic Church talks about too. It’s so interesting.
Tania: I know growing up Catholic, I always struggled with.…I just always found it a little, well I struggled with many different things, but I always found it so weird how we had to go to confession and tell all of our sins to the priest. And then he would say “Okay, this is what you need to do…go pray this…and do this…” And then he would say, “Now you are absolved from your sins.” And I mean, it’s an interesting practice, it just, I think for me, I was always like, Why do I have to go tell this man about all my sins? Why can’t I just directly connect with God and apologize for my sins? You know, it’s different.
Rich: So when you did that, was money required on that?
Tania: No money. I just had to do, they call it like a penance. So then I would have to go and either say X amount of prayers, or usually it was prayers, it was like go pray for 15 minutes, or something like that. And then we will erase your sins.
Rich: Yeah, I think in Martin Luther’s time, (1517), and all that 1500 years in between, there was always a payment type thing, you had to put. And when you think of life back then, that was the Ages…the Renaissance started in 100 or thereabouts, and got legs I think at 1500. And so under that Renaissance, basically when we’re looking at history, every area of the world is slavery. Isn’t that pretty much right?
Farzad: Still is.
Rich: Yeah, still is. It’s a higher level of slavery right now.
Elaine: What do you mean by that? That there’s suffering?
Rich: Well, you mean in today’s world or in…
Rich: In biblical times?
Rich: Well, if you go to Italy, everybody’s broke.
Elaine: All over the world… yeah, there’s this super low class. Economic poverty all over the world.
Farzad: That’s the perfect example:..Italy. They go to Italy…here is the Vatican church…you go inside…all of this beautiful marble…everything was done those years by slavery. Then you see Caesar’s palace that the other side of the street the same thing…then you know how much they are connected, these two powers.
Rich: And it carried on to Washington DC. All of Washington DC was built by slavery.
Farzad: How long and how many of em… I used to be in the stone business polishing something like granite or something here and there, with the machinery, and I see all these done by hand…I don’t know, a thousand years ago…
Rich: I think it was toothbrushes…haha
Farzad: All this work was done by slavery…and stone that they cut from other mountains…how they carry all that…
Tania: Unbelievable isn’t it…
Elaine: All these companies now…everything’s made in China by slave labor, basically. iPhones…
Tania: Yeah, exactly.
Farzad: Yes, go to Miramar right now. There’s poor people over. And Iraq.
Tania: Yeah, it’s happening all over.
Elaine: So, nothing’s changed…it’s just..
Rich: Well even in America here…if you’ve got a job for $70,000 a year, you’re basically in upper level slavery. And the reason being is…you add up the price of homes…it’s hard to find anything for $2,000 or $3,000 nowadays, but you add that and your taxes and things…and people making like $70,000 is upside down.
Tania: Just getting by…
Rich: Yeah, unless you’re already established…
Tania: Yeah, of course.
Rich: And got lucky in the past. So much of the wealth today is going to be generational wealth…that those that made it are going to pass it down to the next generation.
Elaine: Religious leaders don’t really address the issue of, you know, the gap between the rich and the poor.
Elaine: Like you don’t hear the Pope talking about it or anything. You would think that that would be an ethical, humanitarian issue for the church. But it looks like it’s always been this way. And they just don’t talk about it.
Rich: That’s true.
Tania: That’s a really good point.
Elaine: Like, it’s never going to become an issue of the church it seems, is what I’m saying. And it’s been accepted in our society, also for a long time, but people are starting to talk about it more…income inequality and all of that. Thank you Bernie. Bernie Sanders has really brought a lot of it into the forefront, criticizing corporations and you know, for the things that they do, the way they treat people and all of it. Yay for Bernie.
Rich: Yeah, well, there’s a lot of people pulling the same directions…but he’s got the microphone right now.
Rich: So that’s good. I’ve got a note here… some miracles are consistent with those of India. So we talk about miracles of Jesus and other people over the years. And that’s old news in India, that they’re doing stuff like this. Have you experienced that, or seen that?
Farzad: As far as the action of putting kind of stick in their stomach, and then nothing happens…they call them murtaz, because like Darvishism, they do crazy things, which I don’t understand. I don’t necessarily want to put it in with miracle. It’s just a bodily kind of adjustment that they do sometimes.
Rich: Well, for us, it’d be considered a miracle. And then there’s the thing of astral traveling. Yogananda, one of his gurus or something, shows up in two different places at the same time. And those things…
Farzad: That’s one of the Buddha’s miracle…him sitting on this side of the river and then you see him on the other side of the river. Yeah, that was the Buddha’s miracle, kind of thing. It’s beautiful.
Rich: I didn’t know that. So yeah, miracles… I can see where people from the Middle East would march into India…and all around with the Silk Road thing…and get ideas from these people, that some of the miracles that Jesus performed were maybe learned over there in India. I don’t know…
Farzad: David Copperfield, maybe, he learned it somehow!
Rich: Yeah. Oh God…that’s another story. So let me wrap this up here, I gotta give you the story of going to museums…I love to keep finding little nuggets in museums all over. So I’m down in San Diego and we’re going to the museum there. I can’t remember which one it was. And I’m looking at it and they’re saying, I think it was Buddhist but I don’t know. And they showed a person sitting up meditating, and then they’ve got their fingers crossed like this… which I like to do.
Elaine: So like you interfold the fingers…
Rich: Yeah, interfold. That’s a good…
Elaine: Not overlapping them, but putting them in between…
Rich: Yeah. Interlaced. The message to me was that, they were meditating and I think it was possibly Spain where this is occurred. And so that says they either got Hinduism or Buddhism, or something, that was west of the Catholic border. And the other thing that I recall on that is that…I’m pretty sure it was very early on, like either 1000 AD, or something. Yeah, it would have been after Buddha. And I concluded, probably not accurately so, that this Eastern influence was here in Spain a long time, way, way before things got… even after Jesus came on board.
Elaine: Yeah, there was evidence that it had come. It had traveled across the Silk Road.
Tania: It’s so interesting.
Elaine: The Silk Road is fascinating. Maybe we can talk about that another time.
Tania: It really is.
Rich: Maybe we can find a movie on it.
Tania: That would be amazing.
Farzad: Why don’t we travel towards that area?
Tania: Yeah…so much to discover.
Elaine: Thank you for joining us for our 4th podcast. That was a lot of fun.
Tania: Yeah… See you next time.